tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5744170830107487392.post8839504748166667562..comments2024-03-28T07:46:38.114-04:00Comments on Kabinettskriege:: What Percentage of Soldiers were Killed and Wounded in Mid-Eighteenth-Century Battles? Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14756736665642650392noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5744170830107487392.post-21766026593534791782018-12-07T04:13:49.986-05:002018-12-07T04:13:49.986-05:00See also "The Toll of Independence" by H...See also "The Toll of Independence" by Howard Peckham, which was published about 15 years later, in the run-up to the Bicentennial. Unfortunately, I can't lay my hands on my copy at the moment, but IIRC, Peckham came to the opposite conclusion about which side suffered the heavier casualties in battle.Baron von Wreckedoftenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01625953409547293251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5744170830107487392.post-38511967381180289862018-04-26T15:38:09.691-04:002018-04-26T15:38:09.691-04:00On the American side there is this resource: &quo...On the American side there is this resource: "Known Military Dead During the American Revolutionary War 1775-1783" by Charles Stewart Peterson. Originally published in 1959. I've used it extensively to isolate casualties at the company level in the American Army. (https://www.amazon.com/dp/0806302755/)Charlie Fryehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04064243740217756858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5744170830107487392.post-34152126682894649572017-06-16T11:29:07.316-04:002017-06-16T11:29:07.316-04:00Fritz- Yes- absolutely, in wargame terms, you need...Fritz- Yes- absolutely, in wargame terms, you need to account for men who are not merely casualties, but also not active in combat. <br /><br />I think you are right to point out that situations like Zorndorf did exist, but they were not the norm. In the Central European Theater, casualties were normally around 20%, the Austrians losing 18.5% on average, and the Prussians losing 23%. Even in wargame terms, 30% should be a good average, perhaps as high as 40% when account you for troops actually fighting vs. those in reserve, etc.<br /><br />You've brought up some excellent ideas: does your modified version of warfare in the age of reason produce these type of results?Alex Burnshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12276532855224897550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5744170830107487392.post-7308319349143472122017-06-15T23:56:57.665-04:002017-06-15T23:56:57.665-04:00Fascinating stats you have posted here. I note tha...Fascinating stats you have posted here. I note that the cumulative total of the averages of casualties and engagements means that the average regiment suffered nearly 60% in battlefield casualties in the course of the war. Of course the biggest killer for this era (and right up until the mid 19thC) was illness and disease. I don't know what it was for the SYW but the first reliable records of the Napoleonic era put it at many times that for battlefield casualties - at least 3 for every battlefield casualty. If you consider this rate of attrition is it is little wonder many regiments had to be raised several times in the course of the conflict. <br /><br />With regard to battlefield casualties its also worth considering that the majority of the wounded either succumbed to their wounds or were permanently incapacitated so that they could not rejoin their regiments but even a modicum of medical treatment could have an astounding result. Unfortunately this did not occur in any organised way until the Napoleonic period - a good example being the Guard as Aspern Essling where over 500 of the over 800 wounded treated were able to recover from their wounds and eventually rejoin the ranks. One would imagine this just did not happen during the SYW. <br /><br />Also of interest, Prussian General Staff studies after the Franco-Prussian War discovered that if any unit had suffered 30% casualties in a single engagement, that unit was considered kaput! The 25% casualties suffered on average by armies in single SYW battles meant a truly catastrophic result for the losing side!Doc Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12454394616689797734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5744170830107487392.post-21652471161298711152017-06-15T17:55:51.633-04:002017-06-15T17:55:51.633-04:00In a miniature wargame, the casualties are by my e...In a miniature wargame, the casualties are by my estimate 10% higher that the "actual" casualties in a historical battle. This accounts for men who in the confusion of battle manage to slip away from their unit to avoid combat or if when their unit retires from bad morale they are straggling back to reform the unit. Even though it was against the rules some soldiers would assist a wounded comrade to the rear for medical attention, and would be slow/very slow to retun to their unit<br /><br />In the SYW most of the Austrian/Prussian battles have casualties of 25% of the total force. In a wargame that means casulties of 35%. On the extreme of heavy casualties, at Zorndorf the Prussians took 30-35% casualties and the Russians 40-45% historically, so in a game both sides will be near 50% casualties if not above.<br /><br />Another thing to think about. In a battle where a 20-35% of an army is not heavily engaged or only engaged in the the pursuit/retreat phase when the battle has been decided, and the army takes 15% casualties, then the units in the main action are taking 25%-50% casualties.Jung Fritzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09680162289671541029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5744170830107487392.post-80268939469958914912017-06-09T17:20:43.247-04:002017-06-09T17:20:43.247-04:00Joerg,
It does fly in the face of what we think, ...Joerg,<br /><br />It does fly in the face of what we think, and I will admit, I was a little surprised by the results.<br /><br />I'd love to hear more about your visit to Zorndorf! <br /><br />Best,<br /><br />Alex Alex Burnshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12276532855224897550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5744170830107487392.post-79385592937207070432017-06-09T17:19:53.636-04:002017-06-09T17:19:53.636-04:00Peter- thanks for the comment! I am glad to have y...Peter- thanks for the comment! I am glad to have you along for the ride.<br /><br />While 1812-1815 falls outside the scope of the blog, I am certainly interested in the Napoleonic era as well, and many of the sources for my dissertation research come out of that era. <br /><br />Best,<br /><br />Alex Alex Burnshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12276532855224897550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5744170830107487392.post-7183567538664140482017-06-09T16:12:58.536-04:002017-06-09T16:12:58.536-04:00Even re-enactors fall prey to the common notions t...Even re-enactors fall prey to the common notions that huge casualties were normal or at least not rare. Most of us do not take the time and interest to compile such impressive amounts of information and raw scientific conclusions! Thank you for doing so.<br /><br />Having just found this Blog, I plan to contniue following it! I suspect that much of the info. will be driectly relevant to my own period and interpretationL: British, 1812-15Peter Monahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18188299370415063759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5744170830107487392.post-8389082779983366342017-06-09T10:59:02.862-04:002017-06-09T10:59:02.862-04:00More American losses than British? That's not ...More American losses than British? That's not how it's usually presented to people. Interesting. Thank you!<br /> <br />Now I'm off to see if Zorndorf ("angry rage village") received its name before or after this gruesome battle. Joerghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17210877729194661860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5744170830107487392.post-1458878931654393102017-06-08T19:25:30.508-04:002017-06-08T19:25:30.508-04:00Another terrific and useful article: thank you!
My...Another terrific and useful article: thank you!<br />My experiences reenacting seem to be rather the opposite of yours: at the 2016 reenactment of the 1759 British seige of Ft. Niagara, on Saturday, I led a squad of Maryland Provincial Regulars, (Joshua Beall's Company) on the right end of the British line. We (the entire British gorce) had been instructed, that morning, to take heavy casualties. As we advanced into the French outworks, I looked into the ravine, and saw that Company Dumas was about to fire a volley at us. As all of my men were focused on reloading, and I was the only one watching, I took a hit. It would seem, however, that the rest of the Line considered one 280-lb Serjeant to be a heavy-enough casualty, to meet our obligation! NOBODY ELSE FELL! Whatever shall the line do, if I manage to lose this weight, and am no longer heavy? Shall we be ordered to take reasonably fit casualties? :-)Buzz Mooneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17241162846089700061noreply@blogger.com